Gary Chynne
Gary Chynne
  • Видео 369
  • Просмотров 4 199 107

Видео

ANCIENT TRAD TECHNIQUE OF USING POINT OF AIM TO GET CONSISTENT ELEVATION. NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 8626 месяцев назад
HORACE FORD WAS A GREAT LONGBOW SHOOTER OF THE LAST CENTURY AND HE THOUGHT WE GOT BEST ACCURACY IF WE LOOKED AT THE IMAGINARY POINT OF AIM. THIS MOVIE IS A DEMO OF THE PRINCIPAL OF PICKING THE MAGIC SPOT AND ALLOWING THE ARROW TO ARC.
WINTER SOLSTICE TIME OF THE BLACK SKY URBAN APARTMENT HALLWAY PRACTICE NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,2 тыс.6 месяцев назад
40# HORSE BOW USED AS 40# HALL BOW. SPLIT VISION SPLIT FINGER APARTMENT PRACTICE.
TRADITIONAL SIMILARITIES BETWEEN HORACE FORD AN HOWARD HILL SHOOTING STYLES NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7356 месяцев назад
HERE FOR THE MAIN PART I TRY TO EXPLAIN THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN HOWARD HILL AND HORACE FORD. LITTLE THINGS MEAN A LOT.
HORIZONTAL HOLD TURNS SHORT TRADITIONAL ASIAN BOW INTO CROSSBOW STYLE NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7466 месяцев назад
HERE I LAY THE BOW DOWN SO IT IS HORIZONTAL MORE OR LESS TURNING THE SHOOTER INTO A CROSSBOW CONFIGURATION. ALSO I NOTICE THIS BOW SHOOTS A FEW INCHES TO THE RIGHT SO USING THE INDIRECT AIMING TECHNIQUE I AIM THE TIP SLIGHTLY LEFT AND FIND CENTER. THE TIP CAN BE ONLY A TINY BIT OFF SO YOU MUST LET YOUR GROUP TEACH YOU. THAT IS IF YOUR GROUP IS RIGHT BELIEVE IT AND HAVE FAITH AND SHOOT TO THE LE...
BASICS ARE THE PLATFORM ON WHICH TO BUILD YOUR OWN TRADITIONAL FEEL NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 6667 месяцев назад
HERE I ALLOW THE EYES NATURAL ABILITY TO FOCUS ON ONE THING ONLY TO HAPPEN. ALLOWING THE EYES TO NOT GET DISTRACTED BY THE TIP TAKES SOME STRONG RELAXING SKILLS. GOOD LUCK GARY
SPLIT VISION WATCH CENTER THEN LOWER TIP UNTIL THE MAGIC IS ON THE GAP. NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 5757 месяцев назад
THE DISTANCE BETWEEN YOUR MAGIC SPOT AND TIP OF YOUR ARROW IS CALLED THE GAP. HOWARD HILL CALLED IT SPLIT VISION MEANING WE SEE TWO PLACES AT THE SAME TIME. ONE BEING THE SPOT TO BE HIT AND THE SECOND IS BRINGING OUR ARROW TIP DOWN UNTIL ALIGNED ON THE GAP LINE. PERHAPS IT SHOULD BE CALLED THE ELEVATION LINE AS THAT IS WHERE THE TIP SHOULD BE TO GET THE PROPER ELEVATION.
40#HORSE BOW HORN SIYAHS. AIMING, INSTINCTIVE, POINT OF AIM, OR GAP. NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 6667 месяцев назад
HERE I AM STARTING TO EXPLAIN THE THREE MAIN VISUAL WAYS OF USING YOUR EYES. THIS IS NOT FORM. AIMING IS AN ART IN ITSELF SO WE WILL GET INTO INSTINCTIVE, POINT OF AIM, AND GAP. ALL SEPARATELY. IN AIMING ONE TECHNIQUE IS TO SEE WHERE YOUR ARROWS HIT AND ADJUST ACCORDINGLY. FOR INSTANCE IF YOU SHOOT TO THE LEFT 5 IN ALL THE TIME AND 6 IN. HIGH YOU MUST PICK A SPOT 5 IN. RIGHT AND 6 IN. LOWER AND...
SOME VIKINGS ADOPTED ASIAN BOWS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7947 месяцев назад
SOME NORTH MEN FROM SCANDINAVIAN AND ANGLES ADOPTED ASIAN STYLE BOWS WHEN SERVING THE SULTANS IN EASTERN EUROPE. THESE BOWS WERE MORE DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN IN WET WEATHER WHICH GAVE THE TRADITIONAL WOOD BOWS AN ADVANTAGE IN EUROPE. THE ASIAN BOW IS QUITE EFFICIENT AND SHOOTS FAST. ALSO THE ASIAN BOW DOES NOT STACK AS MUCH AS A ENGLISH LONGBOW.
ELEVATION TECHNIQUE YEW TRADITIONAL MEDIEVAL ENGLISH LONGBOW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 8407 месяцев назад
HERE WE CONSIDER THE BENEFITS OF GETTING THE EYE, TO SHAFT ANGLE. AS SMALL, AS POSSIBLE TO MAKE JUDGING THE GAP MORE INSTINCTUAL. THE SMALLER THE GAP THE EASIER TO GUESS.
43# YEW ANCESTRAL HUNTING STYLE ENGLISH LONGBOW LEFT ARM AIMING TECHNIQUE NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,1 тыс.8 месяцев назад
THIS VIDEO IS JUST FOR ENTERTAINMENT AS I SHOW A FEW MORE OIL PAINTINGS. I'M FLATTERED SOME OF YOU HAVE SHOWN A INTEREST IN THE ART, SO WE WILL DEMONSTRATE SOME ARCHERY FORM AND SOME ART. IN THE ARCHERY ART DEMO I'D LIKE TO STRESS THAT WE USE OUR CORNER OF THE MOUTH ANCHOR TO GET THE ARROW KNOCK UNDER THE EYE. NOW THE EYE IS LOOKING AT THE TARGET ,AND IS ABLE TO SEE WHERE THE TIP IS POINTING. I...
YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW HUNTING WT 43# LEFT ARM CONTROLS THE AIM ONLY THE LEFT NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 8098 месяцев назад
I WAS ASKED ABOUT THE PAINTINGS IN MY HALL. WHEN I WAS IN MY EARLY 20'S I ENJOYED PAINTING SO HERE IS A FEW. THEN I HAVE A REGULAR PRACTICE IN THE HALL STRESSING HAND CONTROL AS THE ANSWER TO CONSISTENCY.
THE COMMON MANS ENGLISH LONGBOW 43# TRADITIONAL HUNTING CLASSIC PACIFIC YEW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 8969 месяцев назад
SANTA KLAUS HAD A BEARD BUT IT WAS REALLY ODIN THE OTHERS FEARED #1 YOU CAN DIRECT THE ANGLE OF YOUR SHOULDERS BY MOVING YOUR BACK FOOT TIL THE ARROW ALIGNS. #2 YOU CAN TRY DIFFERENT ANCHORS LIKE UNDER THE CHIN, BY THE EAR, HIGH ON THE CHEEK BONE, OR THE CORNER OF THE EYE, OR CORNER OF THE MOUTH. #3 YOU CAN CANT YOUR BOW UNTIL THE ARROW POINTS AT THE TARGET WHICH I LIKE OR YOU CAN HOLD THE BOW ...
43# YEW LONGBOW HUNTING WT PRACTICE URBAN ARCHERY MATH 12 ARROWS = 1 GROUP NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7309 месяцев назад
HERE I PRACTICE IN MY HALL DEMONSTRATING CONSISTENCY IS ACHIEVABLE WITH THE LEFT HAND AIMING TECHNIQUE. PHYSICAL CONDITIONING COMES WITH PRACTICE. HAVE FUN GARE
43#HUNTING STYLE YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW - BASIC EXERCISES FOR HAND CONTROL NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 8369 месяцев назад
HI MY FRIENDS HERE I EXPLAIN FOR CAMERON THAT AN ARCHER SHOULD DO ALL EXERCISES BUT CONCENTRATE ON THE UPPER BODY. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE BODY FOR SHOOTING A BOW ARE THE HANDS. THE HANDS ARE THE PART OF THE BODY THAT TOUCHES THE BOW THEREFORE IS WHAT CONTROLS AIMING THE BOW WITH THE LEFT HAND AND CONTROLS THE KNOCK END. HANDS DO MORE THAN ARMS, STANCE, BACK OR ANYTHING. HANDS, HANDS, HA...
A TYPICAL WARM UP AND PRACTICE FOR A 43# HUNTING WT YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7369 месяцев назад
A TYPICAL WARM UP AND PRACTICE FOR A 43# HUNTING WT YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
43# CLASSIC ENGLISH HUNTING WT. LONGBOW LONGER ARROWS ARE EASIER TO ALIGN NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7639 месяцев назад
43# CLASSIC ENGLISH HUNTING WT. LONGBOW LONGER ARROWS ARE EASIER TO ALIGN NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
43# HUNTING WT YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW BENDING THE ELBOW TO ALIGN THE ARROW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 5269 месяцев назад
43# HUNTING WT YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW BENDING THE ELBOW TO ALIGN THE ARROW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
HUNTING WT 43# YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW- ACCURATE LEFT ARM AIMING TECHNIQUE NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 6749 месяцев назад
HUNTING WT 43# YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW- ACCURATE LEFT ARM AIMING TECHNIQUE NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
CLASSIC ENGLISH YEW 43# LONGBOW---THE LEFT HAND AIMS THE RIGHT HAND ANCHORS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 7789 месяцев назад
CLASSIC ENGLISH YEW 43# LONGBOW THE LEFT HAND AIMS THE RIGHT HAND ANCHORS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW 43# HUNTING WT. ARROW ALIGNMENT AND FINGER TIP ACCURACY NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,2 тыс.10 месяцев назад
YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW 43# HUNTING WT. ARROW ALIGNMENT AND FINGER TIP ACCURACY NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
YEW ENGLISH HUNTING WT. LONGBOW 43# NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,2 тыс.11 месяцев назад
YEW ENGLISH HUNTING WT. LONGBOW 43# NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
43# ENGLISH YEW LONGBOW ODIN 2023 NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 58111 месяцев назад
43# ENGLISH YEW LONGBOW ODIN 2023 NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
40# OSAGE ORANGE VIKING ERA BOW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.Год назад
40# OSAGE ORANGE VIKING ERA BOW NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
MEDIEVAL VIKING TARGET NEEDED FULL BENEFITS SIMPLE FAST EASY FUN TARGETS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,9 тыс.Год назад
MEDIEVAL VIKING TARGET NEEDED FULL BENEFITS SIMPLE FAST EASY FUN TARGETS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
ENGLISH YEW LONGBOW, HORN NOCKS PORT ORFORD CEDAR WOOD ARROWS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.Год назад
ENGLISH YEW LONGBOW, HORN NOCKS PORT ORFORD CEDAR WOOD ARROWS NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
DEC222MOV 007 MISSY THE CAT CO STARING GARE NON REALITY TV
Просмотров 767Год назад
DEC222MOV 007 MISSY THE CAT CO STARING GARE NON REALITY TV
ADJUSTING MOUTH ANCHOR FOR YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW UNDER 60# NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,4 тыс.Год назад
ADJUSTING MOUTH ANCHOR FOR YEW ENGLISH LONGBOW UNDER 60# NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
WIZARD WASHES BEARD CLEANLINESS IS NEXT TO GODLINESS WASH YOUR SINS AWAY NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,6 тыс.Год назад
WIZARD WASHES BEARD CLEANLINESS IS NEXT TO GODLINESS WASH YOUR SINS AWAY NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
ENGLISH YEW LONGBOW, VIKING DAGGER AND MY BOOK NON REALITY TV WITH GARE
Просмотров 1,4 тыс.Год назад
ENGLISH YEW LONGBOW, VIKING DAGGER AND MY BOOK NON REALITY TV WITH GARE

Комментарии

  • @loganpollock1689
    @loganpollock1689 9 часов назад

    Have you tried holding the bow vertical or nearly so? With my bow (50#, 68" Inventure) it isn't necessary to cant over 30 yards.

  • @kochetkovagalina8600
    @kochetkovagalina8600 День назад

    Gary Greetings! Very interesting video. Very helpful and positive. I'm subscribed. A question. How do you apply pressure in a bow? With what part of your palm? This is not very clear in the video. I will be glad to hear your answer. All the best!

  • @noelportillo8633
    @noelportillo8633 3 дня назад

    I tried this method of using the weak eye seconds after watching this video. I hit the mark spot on. Great advice. Thank you!

  • @LETME-kl9jg
    @LETME-kl9jg 5 дней назад

    Wow thats a great idea.

  • @WilliamDoyle-rb6lt
    @WilliamDoyle-rb6lt 6 дней назад

    Gandalf meets Clint Eastwood. Make my day Orc.

  • @PedroSilva-ld1od
    @PedroSilva-ld1od 7 дней назад

    Well done sir, Prince Aethelwulf has made good choice naming you as the Longbowman defense master against the raiders of Ragnar Lothbrok. Protect Wessex🏹⚒

  • @beardedbowyer9327
    @beardedbowyer9327 11 дней назад

    Gary always teaches you something new about archery. or just an advice. and its always gold! be safe my friend and take care!

  • @demonoid47
    @demonoid47 20 дней назад

    Wherever you may be Garry, we wish you the best.

  • @Tudorick
    @Tudorick 22 дня назад

    We miss you Gary

  • @hillbillyslots1636
    @hillbillyslots1636 24 дня назад

    Im worried haven't seen you on Praying you ok.

  • @constantinbarbu.
    @constantinbarbu. 24 дня назад

    anyone has any updates on gary?

    • @FutureRobinHood
      @FutureRobinHood 16 дней назад

      Idk.....he may be gone...he just vanished

  • @dragonsage6909
    @dragonsage6909 Месяц назад

    A Tim Hortons cup.. whaaaa.. are you in Canada, I'm in Hamilton Ontario. Great episode! .. I was watching old Uncle Howard videos and i found your channel, Im the budding Bowyer on yt. :)

  • @dragonsage6909
    @dragonsage6909 Месяц назад

    Hi, just found your channel, I subbed. I agree with what you're saying about where the bow wants to shoot, it's Luke each bow has its own personality.. you have to get to know it snd Sim accordingly.. Thank you! :)

  • @samantham.8265
    @samantham.8265 Месяц назад

    You okay, Gare? It's been a while

  • @joedaniels4646
    @joedaniels4646 Месяц назад

    In another video you made, you spoke of shooting without an anchor using a no touch of the face at all method. I believe you even made a comment like, anchors make you miss ... yet in this video you advocate for two anchors touching the jaw line and the other on the face. So are you saying this method is actually better? Or are you just showing the different methods out there and it's up to the individual archer to find what works best for him or her self??? Thanks ahead of time, I pray you are in good health, and God bless you!

  • @matthuntsboston
    @matthuntsboston Месяц назад

    Heyo. You haven't posted in a little bit

  • @user-pt6pz3gn4i
    @user-pt6pz3gn4i Месяц назад

    I really like your bow in the video because it is very lively and funny. Could you also specify the length of the bow and the tension force in pounds ???🙏

  • @user-pt6pz3gn4i
    @user-pt6pz3gn4i Месяц назад

    Hello, please tell me what kind of wood is the bow made of?❤

  • @verruxlunox8438
    @verruxlunox8438 Месяц назад

    i LOVE your videos, man!

  • @artimesbabai
    @artimesbabai Месяц назад

    She did not deserve you good man

  • @user-xh6xz6wp9f
    @user-xh6xz6wp9f Месяц назад

    Great advice

  • @stevejaeger8148
    @stevejaeger8148 Месяц назад

    Dang. Tried this method with good results.30yds. Wow. I was looking for Hill explained. Thank you.

  • @stevejaeger8148
    @stevejaeger8148 Месяц назад

    Your messing with my brain. Trying Gary style and it’s working. Might change my whole technique. Videos are great. Maybe I’ve been overthinking archery.

  • @tomfisher47
    @tomfisher47 Месяц назад

    How are they with broadheads

  • @HistoricalWeapons
    @HistoricalWeapons Месяц назад

    How are you Gare? Just checking up on you

  • @user-zg1zl9xx4t
    @user-zg1zl9xx4t Месяц назад

    Evening young man I was just wondering what draw weight you shoot I just switched from compounded traditional, and now I build my own bows Bilt 40 since Christmas only about 10 good ones though anyways my compound is 65 pounds and I know it has lead off. I thought I wanted a 65 pound recurve so I made one could barely pull the dang thing back and first time I pulled it back and anchored it. I hurt my shoulder, I shoot better when I anchor but it hurts. I was just wondering if you had a trick or something from experience do you buy that or do I need to stop being such a vagina lol I hope I can still shoot when I’m your age rather if I even make it that longanyway have a good night. Thanks for the knowledge.

  • @Themiscyoutuber
    @Themiscyoutuber Месяц назад

    Didn't realize he was dressed like Robin hood till it blew up bigger lol

  • @MRGOMEZ101
    @MRGOMEZ101 Месяц назад

    Bowb Ross

  • @Man_fay_the_Bru
    @Man_fay_the_Bru Месяц назад

    Nice to see a man sport a T.O.S( Tam O Shanter hat)…we call it a “bunnet “ over here in Scotland& love the music mate, I’m a guitar player & love the older music👍

  • @macknewman835
    @macknewman835 2 месяца назад

    I make bows as a hobby. Knowing the work, skill and patience that must have gone into your bow, I'd say you got an excellent deal.

  • @plywoodcarjohnson5412
    @plywoodcarjohnson5412 2 месяца назад

    Merry Christmas

  • @IONACOMPUTERS
    @IONACOMPUTERS 2 месяца назад

    Birds have 2 wings

  • @kentwilliams3326
    @kentwilliams3326 2 месяца назад

    Yup, 6' feet tall and a 24" draw with a 66" Howard Hill Bug Five.

  • @GermMontes
    @GermMontes 2 месяца назад

    Came here from a SpaceHey post talking about how they like to find people who are "wizards" this video was linked under it. This is def a wizard, so awesome.

  • @Full-Wisdom
    @Full-Wisdom 2 месяца назад

    Fantastic

  • @stevejaeger8148
    @stevejaeger8148 2 месяца назад

    . Wondering about outfit. Splitting image of someone else I know.. is it possible?? Good info.

  • @thelastremnantofevil
    @thelastremnantofevil 2 месяца назад

    I gotta say I remember when this video first came out. 5 years later I still come back to it when I find myself in need of guidance. Thank you Gary for sharing your wisdom with the world. Your acts of teaching make the world a brighter place.

  • @exzendar2523
    @exzendar2523 2 месяца назад

    How are you good sir?

  • @FutureRobinHood
    @FutureRobinHood 3 месяца назад

    Gary.......are you still there Gare? Please tell me you're still there....i need to learn so much more...

  • @A1phaWolf150
    @A1phaWolf150 3 месяца назад

    Jeez, I’ll never be on the Naughty list again.

  • @andrewmiller218
    @andrewmiller218 3 месяца назад

    Good Afternoon Gare! I just found you and your channel over the last week or so and I want to thank you for blessing us with your knowledge on the art of artchery! I’m just getting back into traditional archery after being out of it for a 10-12 years. I’m getting a 35# English longbow in tbe next few weeks to build my form and my shoulder. I scrolled through all your videos and couldn’t find one (from the title at least) that talks about your archer’s glove & bracer/ offhand glove combo. Are those custom or can they be purchased somewhere? I really like your setup and would like to emulate it if possible. Thank you again for sharing your wealth of knowledge/wisdom on archery as well as this game of life. I hope you are doing well and look forward to learning more of the art from you! Fair winds and following seas, my new friend. -Andrew M.

    • @garychynne1377
      @garychynne1377 3 месяца назад

      THANK YOU ANDREW. TRY 3R ARCHERY. THEY HAVE THE GLOVES BUT NO LONGER THE BRACER THOUGH THEY HAVE OTHERS SIMILAR' HAVE A GREAT DAY GARY

  • @jeddfthornton5782
    @jeddfthornton5782 3 месяца назад

    Thanks Gary, cool to see the physical effects.

    • @garychynne1377
      @garychynne1377 3 месяца назад

      THANK YEW JEDD. IT JUST OCCURS NATURALLY THROUGH PRACTICE. HAVE FUN GARY

  • @Axolotl-446
    @Axolotl-446 3 месяца назад

    Santa?

    • @garychynne1377
      @garychynne1377 3 месяца назад

      HO HO HO ALL THE BEST WISHES FOR YOU. REMEMBER SANTA LOVES YOU. HAVE FUN. GARY

  • @johnrichard6639
    @johnrichard6639 3 месяца назад

    Thank you GARE, GOOD TO BE BACK! JUST IN TIME FOR SOME KNOWLEDGE FROM YOU! STILL & ALWAYS THE GREATEST TEACHER! KUDOS & THANK YOU FOR LETTING US TAP YOUR KNOWLEDGE & EXPERIENCES! BRAVO MATE🏹

    • @garychynne1377
      @garychynne1377 3 месяца назад

      THANK YEW JOHN. THAT IS VERY KIND AND MEANS A LOT TO ME. LONG LIFE MY FRIEND

  • @armin2291
    @armin2291 3 месяца назад

    Hey Gare, how are you?

    • @garychynne1377
      @garychynne1377 3 месяца назад

      OK ARMIN. THANKS FOR ASKING. NO ONE CAN STOP GETTING OLD MY FRIEND. ENJOY EVERY MOMENT. GARE

    • @armin2291
      @armin2291 3 месяца назад

      Thanks for your response! ...and for your shooting tips so far!

  • @NaturalExplorerNZ
    @NaturalExplorerNZ 3 месяца назад

    Your videos are great motivation to keep at it. Thanks for the tips and hope you are well!

    • @garychynne1377
      @garychynne1377 3 месяца назад

      THANK YOU MY FRIEND BEST OF LUCK IN LIFE. GARY

  • @ZEUStheKingGermanShepherd
    @ZEUStheKingGermanShepherd 3 месяца назад

    🌟🌟🌟⚘️🌟🌟🌟⚘️🌟🌟🌟⚘️

  • @danielspain7231
    @danielspain7231 3 месяца назад

    The Bob Ross of archery

  • @danielspain7231
    @danielspain7231 3 месяца назад

    Good video, but I don’t agree with the fully extended elbow - if you haven’t got excellent tone strength in that area then you can very easily over-extend your elbow joint which from experience is exceptionally painful, easy to do, and takes about 6-8 weeks to recover from. Better to go about 90% extension and have the bigger muscle groups handle the work plus good breathing. The whole thing fluid, push/pull/extend/breath/expand (not necessarily in that order) and have all the upper body strength available? Just an opinion here…

  • @danielspain7231
    @danielspain7231 3 месяца назад

    You ever loose any beard hair from the full draw? Gotta be painful if you do !